Ranchers Build Better Cows: Planning for Dry Years with Dean Fish

Drought isn’t a rare event in the Southwest, it’s a planning assumption. From Farmington’s Stockmanship and Stewardship event, we sit down with Dean Fish, a southern Arizona rancher, Arizona Beef Council member, and longtime Extension livestock specialist, to get honest about how real ranch decisions get made when grass, water, and time are limited. 

We talk about Dean’s work managing the Santa Fe Ranch, plus the community side of ranch life: ag literacy for school groups and programs that welcome the special needs community for animal therapy and outdoor experiences. That mix of cattle work and public connection leads us into a bigger conversation about trust. Beef councils do not need to advertise to ranchers, they focus on the consumers who are on the fence, including future influencers like dietitians and dietetic interns, using research, education, and practical storytelling. 

Then we get into the nuts and bolts of sustainable beef production in a high desert grassland: rotational grazing, rest and recovery for key plants, and drought management timelines that trigger specific actions when the rain does not come. We also talk stewardship beyond the herd, like keeping water available across pastures for wildlife, and the challenge of navigating public lands and public policy while still communicating with humility. 

Finally, Dean breaks down cattle genetics in plain language, from EPDs to genomics, and why better data helps build more efficient cows in arid environments. If you care about animal welfare, rangeland stewardship, and the future of ranching, hit subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave us a review so more people can find the stories behind beef.

Thanks for tuning in to Behind the Burger!
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Transcript

Welcome From Farmington

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome back to another episode of Behind the Burger. I'm Carolyn Romo, the executive director of the New Mexico Beef Council. We're here in Farmington for the Stockmanship and Stewardship Event. And I'm here with Mr. Dean Fish from Arizona. Thank you so much for joining the podcast. First, can you introduce yourself and yeah, start start with uh who you are and why you're here, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

All right. I'm I'm tickled to be here. Thank you for having me on this. This is a great opportunity. I I love getting a chance to share. Uh if anybody ever wants to talk about cows, uh I'm in. So I love it. Um I love it too. Um so my name is Dean Fish. I ranch in Southern Arizona. Um, I'm a member of the Arizona Beef Council, and that's how I met you through our great director, Lauren. Um, I think we we both um our both of our states share really, really great beef councils that do a lot of really good work. But um anyway, um I ranched in southern Arizona. I spent about 15 years with the University of Arizona as an extension um livestock specialist and extension agent. Worked in a lot of those different areas, but grew up in southern Arizona on small commercial cow calf ranches and um lucky enough to be able to get back there. So you asked why we were here in Farmington. Again, we have the stockmanship and stewardship, and one of my um things that I do to support my cow habit is I do a little outside work. And so I'm part of the stockmanship and stewardship team for National Cattlemen's Beef Association, and um Dr. Winsl invited me out here to kind of help with cattle handling demonstrations this morning. So that's what we were doing this morning here.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah, well, and I think this is a cool event because it's it's proof of some of the things we try and teach in the podcast or talk about on the podcast is that producers are constantly trying to improve, trying to learn, trying to do right by their cattle, do right by the consumer. Um, and that's exactly what's happening here, right? Learning that's the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah, we yeah, tremendous turnout. I think they had about 200 people that were pre-registered from all over New Mexico and even other states that that came over and wanted to learn about how they better their operations and how do they incorporate some of these different practices from the cattle handling stuff into their own operations, have questions about facility design, you know, moving cattle, things that they had issues with. But then the additional stuff that they get over today and tomorrow, some of the educational stuff that you've got some of the best speakers that are coming here that are talking about stuff like screw, where we're talking about cattle markets, how do you um manage drought, how do you um properly supplement your cattle, all of those kind of things. So all of these producers that have come here today are interested in learning more and have demonstrated a commitment to making um the beef

Dean’s Ranch Work And Community Programs

SPEAKER_01 2:40

business better and their own operations better.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Absolutely, absolutely. And I always always love that about producers that they are willing to try new things, willing to learn, and and that you know, humility to try and do better, right? And and uh all of that. So this is a cool event. Well, tell me you you talked about you know, you grew up on commercial cow cap operations. Um, tell me about your current operation um and what you do, you know the day-to-day.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, so I am the ranch manager for the Santa Fe Ranch. And so the Santa Fe Ranch is a ranch that we moved there when I was seven, and my dad managed that for 35 years. And like I said, I was an extension for a while, and I had an opportunity to go back to the ranch. And so the ranch was moved into a family foundation, and so we do a lot of work with um getting young people out of doors. So we do a lot of school programs, we do a lot of and they get ag literacy whether they want it or not, because of my bias and my background, because we think it's important for young people to know where food comes from, even in a rural area like where I'm at, um, it still comes from Safeway or Walmart, right? You know, and so so we do a lot of the ag literacy stuff, we do a lot of school groups. One of the coolest programs we do is we work with the um special needs community. Oh wow, and so we um have animal therapy, we have um different activities for them, and so um it's just a tremendous opportunity to kind of do some of that stuff. Um, but the cool part is is that for for me anyway, I love doing that stuff, and that's kind of ties into my former extension background. But the cool thing that I get to do is I also have a cattle business. And so I lease a ranch and own the cow herd and have my own little commercial cow calf and raise a few club calves as as part of my operation there.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Oh man, lots of lots of diversity in that and uh lots of neat things. So that means it's a it's a natural fit for you to be on the beef council, right? Because beef council's job, I what is it, the three things promotion, education, and research, right? Well, you're doing education every day, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

That's pretty neat.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah, so I it is a natural fit. And so, kind of, I guess backing up a little bit about my background, ever since I can remember, Caroline, I have loved cows. I wanted to be a cowboy. I went and found one of my old record books when I was 11 years old in there. You had to write a 4-H story way back in the olden days of the 1980s. Um but um I wrote in there, I want to be a cowboy. And you know, I knew from a young age, I mean, ever since I I read every book about a horse or you know, Will James stuff and you know, everything that I yeah, I know. I mean and just I just craved that lifestyle. You know, I would get up in the morning and hope that we were doing something horseback, and then I have to go build fence or irrigate or something, you know. But but but um I have been fortunate enough to be able to make my career in the beef industry, and you know, part of you know, my research. So actually I went to U of A and was an animal science major and and um my advanced degrees are in reproductive physiology with animal science. I always knew I loved cows, yeah, but I didn't have that opportunity for a while. Um, and then in 2013, when my dad retired and I took over that manager of the Santa Fe Ranch, I got to be able to jump into the beef industry full-time. But through extension, as as you know, the we met a lot of the great extension people here at uh in New Mexico, but extension you build a network of different relationships and so and organizations and a commitment to service. And so the beef counter was a perfect fit for me just because I love the beef industry, I love promoting what we do, and I know that our beef counts is really what's driving a lot of demand for consumers. That beef council is doing just a tremendous job of outreaching in different areas that we don't traditionally think of. One of the things that I think you know sometimes we get criticism is that you don't have the old Sam Elliott ads, you know, beef, it's what's for dinner. Well, we don't need to advertise to us. We're already choosing beef. We need to advertise to the people that normally don't choose beef or are on defense. And I think the beef council role that that I see is really important is giving people permission to feel good about making that choice, about feeling good about um choosing that steak for dinner.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Absolutely, absolutely. We uh one of my board members, uh Sarah Fitzgerald, talks about we don't need to doctor the healthy calves, right? We need to doctor the sick calves. Well, the sick calves are the people that have been told to avoid red meat. The sick the sick calves are the ones that that haven't seen the research or don't believe the research and the science behind how healthy beef is, and so absolutely. So hopefully, as a producer, I don't want you to see our advertising, right? If if we're on your newsfeed too many times, I'm a little nervous. I yes, you deserve to know what we're doing with your money, and so I'm not that nervous, but but we absolutely want to be in places that you don't expect us. So um I know uh the team at Arizona Beef Council does a great job with dietitians and uh dietetic interns and all of that, and those folks that that um are gonna influence people's food choices in the future, that's huge, right? That's we that New Mexico and Arizona align perfectly on that. We love to focus on dietitians. That's absolutely a great thing. So absolutely. We love Sam Elliott. We love Beef It's What's for Dinner. We

Beef Council Marketing Beyond Ranchers

SPEAKER_00 7:50

say Beef It's What's For Dinner at the end of our podcast, um, in the you know, the the role that that runs after, and absolutely it's an iconic brand. It just doesn't have to be, we don't have to spend all this marketing dollars on a big fancy commercial anymore, right? Uh okay, so we love to talk about landscape and climate in New Mexico. Um, Arizona isn't that much different, especially southern southern Arizona and southern New Mexico. But can you talk about how um Arizona's landscape and climate impact decisions you make on your ranch?

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, so uh if you look at so I've been kind of would be classified probably as a high desert grassland. And so I'm my headquarters is about 3,800 foot elevation. I know precip is about 16, 17 inches a year. It's never 16 or 8 to 17, it's either 12 or 24. Okay. And usually leaning toward 12 is is where we're at. So we're pretty dry climate, and so we've got to manage that. We gotta we are primarily a summer forage growing um community, and so we'll grow most of our forage. We'll get some winter, some little bit of winter, we'll get some browse, we'll get some forbs, we'll get some other stuff. So from a grazing perspective, we're managing those summer perennials. That's our most important thing. And so we'll implement a you know, a rotational grazing, and so where that grazing plan will allow two to three, two out of three seasons of rest at least in every pasture, you know, so that we take care of those plants when they're most vulnerable. And so doing things like that to manage the other thing that we think about or that we sometimes don't think about as ranchers is um, I think if you looked at climatological, I almost said that word right, data data. If you look at precipitation, yeah, seven out of ten years in southern Arizona is classified as a drought.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Um, but we look at those three years and think that's the norm. And so one of the things that we really as as progressive ranchers and ranchers are trying to be good stewards is we need to manage for that drought and have good drought management plans. And so that's maybe something that you don't see in other parts of the country, but us in Arizona and New Mexico, we've got to stay on top of that. You know, what are what is that hierarchy of actions that we need to take by certain dates in our particular microclimate that, you know, for example, we should start raining first part of July. So, okay, if it's not raining by 15th of July, what do we start, what do we need to start doing? You know, what where do we coal? Where do we, you know, find pasture, find alternative for whatever those plans are, but we need to have kind of a timeline, and that's really related to drought in in I think in New Mexico and Arizona that I think is a little bit unique compared to other parts of the world.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Absolutely, absolutely. We I had the opportunity to be a guest on um the Indiana Beef Council and Cattlemen's uh podcast, and they said their stocking rate is three acres to one cow, and in New Mexico it's 60 to 150 acres per one animal, right? So it is very unique in our in our part of the world. And and one of my favorite things to tell consumers when we're talking to them is like you were saying, you're talking about the native grasses and you have all of this understanding, you know, the Forbes and the this, you know, all of these words that sometimes kind of go flying past me even and flying past a consumer, but you have to be a range scientist, right? And so everything you do is a choice and a and a plan for, like you said, if it rains, if it doesn't, and you're reliant on these native grasses, right? That's that's a really cool thing to me that that is kind of proof. I know um a lot of ranchers, Cole Gardner was a board member recently, and he talked about it that ranchers are environmentalists because you know the ground, you know the grass.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

So yeah, and we've got to take care of it. You know, we we think about we had a great um talk tonight by Dr. Gary Sides that talked about you know why he promotes beef and why he's such an advocate for the beef industry. And then he showed a picture of his grandchildren. I mean, how more, I mean, how more impact important is it for us to leave that for future generations? And you know, I think one of the, if you will, cowboy code of ethics is is always leave it better than you found it. And I think that if you talk to most

High Desert Grazing And Drought Timelines

SPEAKER_01 12:00

people that have an opera have a beef cattle operation, that's what they're trying to do. Either, you know, the cattle, the livestock are gonna be easier to handle, they're gonna be better genetically, the resource is gonna be more capable, sustaining drought, sustaining those kind of things. So always trying to make that a little bit better than than what you founded, I think is important.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Absolutely, absolutely, and it's it it kind of goes towards the the character of ranchers, right? You've made this commitment, whether it's financial, time, all of the commitment to do it, and you're gonna leave it better than than you found it, right? For sure. That's pretty special. Um and takes a lot of work, right? A lot of uh fencing pliers, a lot of uh trips with the truck and the cake truck or whatever. Um talk can you talk about the cattle specifically? Um, an example that maybe maybe consumers, maybe people don't aren't familiar with, or maybe something unique you do in your operation that specifically cares for the cattle. Of course, the caring for the grass cares for the cattle too, but another one.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah, so uh, you know, I I think about again, we're in we're in a drought area, so and you think about natural resources as a whole. I think what a lot of our consumers don't know is you know, we're not just taking care of the cattle, we're taking care of the bigger picture. And so wildlife is a big, big part of that. You know, so I use like the ranch bot technology, and I have um water that I leave on. So I may have on that main ranch that I lease, there's seven big pastures, and so that cow herd will be in one or two of those, but I have water on in every single one of those pastures trying to take care of that wildlife, making sure that they're taken care of as well. And so I think some of the other benefits of having a steward on that landscape is something that a lot of our consumers don't think about, you know, and and you talked about the grazing capacity, you know, the the stocking rates of you know 60 to 100, 150 acres per per animal unit. You know, when I think about that, I think about what else are we gonna do with that landscape? Because it's obviously not arable land. We're not gonna grow corn, we're not gonna grow beans, or we're not gonna grow potatoes, but what else can we do to create a safe, wholesome, nutritious product like beef? That cow can do that. She's magic. I tell you I like cows. I love cows. I mean, that that's just part of that, that whole room and how she's able to digest that cellulose and convert that into something that's that's useful. And then we get to have fun doing it. Right. Pretty pretty cool deal.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Oh, it is so cool. And it's and it's even um, you know, I get to represent ranchers and and work in the industry, but it's even you know, still romantic to me to think about in the the chances when I get up get to be on a ranch or or my husband and I are are uh beginning ranchers, that romanticism of being in the in the wild, seeing elk come through and come to your waters and knowing that you get to care for them and help keep that um, you know, like you said, the whole ecosystem. It's super romantic. I could get choked up. It's beautiful. I love cows. I love the ranching, and um, and it's a yeah, really special industry. And and like you said, and we get to provide this safe, quality, wholesome, wholesome beef. Um, what's maybe your biggest challenge or one of your biggest challenges as a rancher?

SPEAKER_01 15:03

You know, I think I think we're always faced with a lot of different challenges, and you know, especially both of our states, we have a lot of public lands. And so dealing with public policy, dealing with those decision makers, and trying to tell our story, you know, I don't think we've done a good job. And I think, and I appreciate your podcast of what you're doing, um, to try to help educate our consumers, try to educate those decision makers about what we're really doing. We're not evil people out here trying to um just make a quick buck on this. Most of these ranches are either multi-generational or, you know, my livelihood, my family's livelihood depends on me being able to sustain that for a long period of time. And so that's a big challenge is trying to tell our message in a way that is not arrogant either, right? Because sometimes I think we in agriculture become arrogant. You know, we're the one percent that's feeding the other 99%. And um, we've got to be careful about that too, because um it's it it certainly is a calling. A lot of our wages come in enjoyment, some of those romantic things that you talked about, taking care of that landscape. Um, but at the same time, it's also a wonderful lifestyle that that we need to be careful that that we're projecting that correctly and telling that message correctly.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Absolutely, absolutely. Totally the goal of the podcast, and even um, I think I might have talked about it in the last podcast or another one. One of our guests said one of his biggest challenges was that storytelling, kind of similar to what you're saying. And and there hasn't always been a platform, there also hasn't always been a receptive audience, right? Not all consumers wanted to, and sometimes I think we even wanted to educate the public. Well, if someone comes to me and they want to educate me, I'm done. I'm out. Don't you aren't coming to educate me, right? I'm way too proud for that. But we don't want to do that, right? We want to, we want to share information, share the storytelling. And

Wildlife Water And Whole-Land Stewardship

SPEAKER_00 16:55

luckily, now in 2026, we have, you know, I forgot my podcast equipment, but I still had microphones and a camera because we have access to modern technology and we can do this, you know, we've been storytelling for for millennia, right? Now we can storytell in in a digital format. So absolutely, I think I think uh now is a great time to try and take that take that momentum forward and and keep telling the story, especially for a lazy guy like me and doesn't like to write. Yeah, right. I don't want to write. I don't want to write, but I can sure talk. Nobody should give me a microphone. Um what's one thing um that maybe consumers don't know about raising cattle? Maybe specifically in Arizona, but and again, this might be a one more thing that people don't know.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Maybe when people come to the ranch and they are really surprised by you know, I I think from particularly the livestock side, the cow side, I think a lot of our consumers don't understand the work that's being done into the genetics and the genetic selection. You know, we think about, you know, we've mapped the bovine genome, right? You know, we don't know what all those genes do and all those interactions, but we have we're getting a pretty good idea of predictability in those genetics. And so now we're able to take a little tissue sample, find the genomics, and select replacement heifers based on what our qualifications or criteria are. We know that, say a 1,200-pound cow, there can be two of those that to keep them in a body condition score of five, one's gonna eat 60 pounds of forage, one's gonna eat 40 pounds of forage. There's some feed intake differences, there's some efficiency differences. When we talk about agriculture in an arid environment, those efficiencies are what is going to keep us going and and create more with less, right? You know, we've been done an amazing job in agriculture of being able to continue to feed the world with less cows, less land, less resources, but doing it more in in doing it more impactfully and more efficiently with technology.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

And one of the things sometimes when we've talked about genetics in the past, genetics is a little scary to the consumer or maybe to the social media keyboard warrior. Um, and what genetics means in agriculture is like you were talking about traits that we can breed for that will be beneficial in the process. And it's the same type of breeding that we do with a doodle dog, right? We have hypoallergenic animal because the poodle doesn't shed or or however that works, right? And so I always just want to encourage that when we talk about genetics, it's it's just a simple breeding process. It's picking the best animal for or the best cow for the best bull, putting them together for whatever our goals are that year, or that specific thing, or that that what's needed in the genetic pool, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah, I think, and I think that's a great way, great way to simplify that and put that. You know, it's uh we're not modifying anything. We're not doing, um, you know, I think about what tool my dad had, you know, when he was starting to breed cattle, you know, and he basically had phenotype and basically looking at what the visual doing a visual appraisal of an animal and trying

Public Lands Pressure And Telling The Story

SPEAKER_01 20:00

to match it up with something else that visually looked the same. Then EPDs came along, right? And those were expected progeny differences, and those were calculated based on progeny performance. And so if a bull had, you know, a certain number of sons and daughters, and they could identify different characteristics and develop a number that gave some type of predictability to those calves. You know, now with the genomics, it's just basically more information. It's an in-depth information that knows that you can use the phenotype, you can use that bull's brothers, sisters, parents, you know, whatever. Um, but now you know the genetics that are actually going to quantify those breeding decisions. And so we're able to make much more rapid and better advances in in our selection of livestock.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Absolutely. It's it's amazing to see how far it's come and even you know, still me trying to understand those EPDs, the expected progeny differences, looking at those, you know, birth weight. If you have a younger, younger uh female, right, you heifer, you're gonna have the lower birth weight or attempt for the low birth weight, but then you want the low birth weight, but a maybe a higher weaning weight, if that's a possibility, right? Because you're still thinking about the animal at the you know, later on in the process. So there's so many decisions to be made. And the more the more information you have at your fingertips is obviously gonna make you a better, a better rancher, better operator, just like in any business. Um do you have a favorite story or funny story to tell that you can think of?

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah, well, uh for your audience, yeah, I'll have to probably tone out. Yeah, no. Um, I I think one of the one of the funnest things. So I'm here doing stockmanship and stewardship. And so I kind of got that gig um, I think 13, 14 years ago working for the National Cattlemen's Beef Association. I was just a roadie, right? Yeah, and so I was there to help set up the pet chute, set up the arena, kind of haul cattle in, do whatever was needed. And so after after a couple of years, I think either Kurt or Ron didn't show up, and so they threw me in it in the arena to do a press. Presentation. And um, so anyway, at the cattle convention, um they would film those parts of the demonstrations and so forth. And so the producer told me, hey, you're gonna be on TV, you know, Wednesday night. So, of course, I get you know, I'm pretty big shot, you know. It's like go and tell my mom. I'm like, Mom, you better tune into RFD TV because you know, O Dino's gonna be on TV. And so the only shot they had of oldino

Genomics, EPDs, And Smarter Breeding

SPEAKER_01 22:30

was sweeping. So my mom's like, yeah, pretty big deal there may eat them all. So so anyway, so keep it humble. Good, good lesson in keeping humility and uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

And what gets cut on the TV is hard. That's the worst. That's the worst. What is something you're excited about in your operation?

SPEAKER_01 22:47

You know, I I think right now that I am excited. You know, I was talking to a young man today that's 20 years old, starting a beef business. I'm excited about the young people that are coming into our industry. I think it's such a great, great opportunity. I think about right now, um and I'm gonna sound old-timey now, but like way back in the 1980s and 90s, how did you get information like this? You had to go to a university, you had to go to a clinic, you had to go to a library to get stuff about beef genetics, to get that type of though that type of information. Now with uh interwebs, you can YouTube how to AI a goat, you can YouTube how to change a headlight on your pickup. There's that internet has changed and leveled the access to knowledge for young people, and young people are doing it. You know, I do a little bit of work in the auction industry and thinking about how you know we used to have to listen to an old cassette tape and a pickup to listen to Ralph Wade, auctioneer, to try to imitate him. Now you can go and you listen to 20 different auctions per day and listen to your favorite ones and so and live, right? And kind of pick that stuff up. So I think the access to information and how we use that is so cool right now for young people that are coming in industry. And now then think about all the new technologies that I don't even understand, like AI and so forth, like that. How are those tools going to be incorporated into what the future ranching beef production is? I it's really an exciting time to be part of the beef industry, especially if you're young.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Absolutely. I agree. I think that's access to information is is huge, and uh absolutely. Um why do you do what you do? There's hard days, there's rough days, there's there's good days, of course. But what makes you keep going?

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yeah, I love cows. I love being around cows, I love the lifestyle. Um, I love just what we do and what we represent. I love the ability that you know we can take and um take care of God's creation, do a good job, and produce a safe, wholesome product that feeds America um and the world, really. And it's just it's really, really satisfying to ship a load of calves that you've raised, you know, or you know, I raised a few club calves, you know, to have a calf that wins uh, you know, Santa Cruz County Fair or something like that. It's just rewarding that your work and the genetics and the care and the well-being of that animal produced something that's tangible, that's that's cool, that's wholesome.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Absolutely. The great reasons and and a lot of shared reasons among among cattle producers. Um what is something that you want consumers to know? We've talked about things maybe they don't know, things that you do. Um, what do you hope that consumers know about the people raising their food?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

You know, I think I think that if consumers understand that we're doing the best job that we possibly can to take good care, to give these cattle a good life, you know, ultimately they're gonna make that ultimate sacrifice for us at the end and you know, and feed us. But in the meantime, I think consumers need to know that we're doing the best job that we possibly can to create a nice, pleasant life for them. Um I don't think cows necessarily feel emotions, but I can tell when a cow is content. And if I can always keep that cow content, keep my horse content, keep my family content, keep you know, people that I interact with, you know, in a content frame of mind, I think I'm doing a pretty good job. And I think consumers need to know that you know that's our goal. Anything else is not as counterproductive.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Absolutely, absolutely. I I hope they know that as well. Um, what is your advice if someone is going to follow in your footsteps, whether it be branching, advocacy, education, all the things you do, what what's advice to those people?

SPEAKER_01 26:35

You know, I I think number one is just get involved. You've got to have a sense of curiosity. You know, you've got to understand, okay, well, you know, hey, the boss, you know, if you say you're working on managing a place or working on a place and the boss picks out a bunch of bulls, why did he or she pick out those certain bulls? So always having that curiosity, I think, is is really important. I think the other thing too is being patient and persistent. Neither one of the well, patience is certainly not one of my virtues. I was um 40 years old before I had a chance to have a you know, I always had cows. I've had cows since I was found my first OE calf at five, right? I've always had a few cows or did this or that, but I didn't get a legitimate chance to really be involved in the beef industry until I was 40 years old. That was frustrating because I wanted to inherit a ranch or, you know, or marry a ranch or you know, or or to have that lifestyle. But it took being patient and it took all those experiences up to that age to help me make success, to help me to be somewhat successful after that. And so

Curiosity, Patience, Persistence, And Beef Favorites

SPEAKER_01 27:40

being patient was really, really difficult sometimes, and especially when you're younger, we don't understand that. But the other part of that is also persistence. If you have a goal in mind, I guarantee you, if I can do it, I guarantee anybody can do it. If you really have that goal in mind, if you really think about it, you probably have not failed at anything that you've really given 100% to. You've probably failed at stuff. I know I've failed a lot of stuff, but if I reflect, if I've really given it everything that I've had, I haven't failed at anything. And so that persistence is really, really important. So being patient, persistent would be advice that I'd give a young producer that's trying to enter into this industry.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Excellent advice. Curiosity, patience, persistence. That's like uh a recipe for success in anything we're doing, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:24

In a new job, new life, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, new uh social setting, anything. Um, I think that's great. Great advice. Okay, so I always say this is my favorite question, maybe the most important question. Um, what is your favorite way to eat beef?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

You know, I think I think the typical answer would probably be like a bone-end rebeye or whatever, but um, growing up along the US-Mexican border, so many of my early memories of going to you know, parties like cinchinietas or weddings, you know, we had a good old tough chuck steak cooked over a mesquite fire, wrapped up in a good flour tortilla with a little bit of salsa, hard to beat.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

That's that's nostalgic, delicious. I can taste the you know, charcoal.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

A little texture to it.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Yeah, that's perfect. That's perfect. No, I think uh there's a lot of ways to eat beef. We're just happy you're eating it, right? Um that's

Closing And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_00 29:15

what we tell consumers. So, well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you for your work with the Arizona Beef Council, for your work with stockmanship and stewardship, um, and and most importantly, thanks for for your work to help feed the world. Uh, we have so much respect for what you do, and and thanks for being on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Absolutely. Well, that's another episode. Thank you, guys. Behind the Burger is produced by the New Mexico Beef Council to celebrate the people and stories behind New Mexico Beef. Thanks for listening. Follow the show so you never miss an episode and connect with us on social media for more behind-the-scenes stories and updates. You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at NM Beef and on Facebook at NM Beef Council. We'll see you next time. And until then, beef, it's what's for dinner.