American Wagyu Demystified with The Meat Dudes

We team up with Evan and Tyler from the Meat Dudes to clear up what American Wagyu is and why labels like “Kobe” and “Wagyu burger” can mislead. We dig into genetics, sourcing, and cooking so you can buy beef with confidence and get a great result at home. 
• Evan and Tyler’s path from restaurants to a Wagyu-focused butcher shop and podcast 
• What Wagyu means in plain terms and how American Wagyu traces back to Japanese genetics 
• Why “Kobe” is a regional designation and why most “Kobe burgers” are not what they claim 
• The myth of massaging cattle and the real role of low stress handling 
• Docility, adaptability, and why Wagyu can work across climates 
• Longer finishing timelines and how producers think about profitability 
• Why transparency matters and how to verify sourcing and registration 
• Practical cooking guidance from cast iron searing to careful grilling and flare-up control 
• Why tallow works so well and how it keeps flavor front and center 
• Going beyond ribeye and tenderloin with Denver, bavette, culotte, tri-tip, skirts, and sirloins 
• How connecting consumers to ranchers can strengthen the beef industry 
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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introductions

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome back to another episode of Behind the Burger. I'm Carolyn Romo, the executive director of the New Mexico Beef Council. Today we have a pretty fun episode. We're doing some podcast collaboration. Joining me are the Meat Dudes, um, or the hosts of the Meat Dudes podcast, Evan and Tyler. Uh, thank you guys for joining and agreeing to have this uh fun, interesting episode.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Absolutely. Thanks for having us. Yeah, no, thank you. We're excited.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Yeah, me too. Me too. So will you guys, I mean, just start with your background and kind of introduce yourselves. I think you guys have a unique story.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

So Yeah, yeah, totally. We're the meat dudes. Um, so we um I'll start off with myself. I'm Evan and uh been in the restaurant industry for you know pretty much my whole life. Me and Tyler opened up a couple of restaurants, uh butcher shop, and really fell in love with Wagyu beef during COVID. Um, because our restaurant was basically shut down. So we had to find new ways to generate revenue. So we decided to bring in a full blood Wagyu cow that was about what eight to ten miles away from us, uh raised eight to ten miles away from us. I think it was like 17 maybe. Yeah, it was it was really close. And we so we brought in this this full blood cow from uh Magnolia Farms, Magnolia Ranch, and um sold it out of our big garage door windows, had a huge line out the door, everything was processed. We sold this whole thing in about two hours and got to taste a lot of it and really fell in love with Wagyu beef. And from that point on decided to open up a butcher shop, really focused on wagyu beef, on American Wagyu beef. Um, and it's kind of just been in our blood since then. You know, we have the podcast where we're launching a wagyu map, a meat dudes approved wagyu map, where you can find wagyu all over the United States. Uh, that's been approved by the American Wagyu Association and approved by the Meat Dudes, and we're cooking it up. We're teaching people how to cook it and trying to make it more approachable, and it's really been a fun little ride.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I love that. Tyler, what about you?

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Oh, this this is my first rodeo. I haven't been doing this very long. Sure. I started cooking when I was about 14, which uh got my start at the world famous Burger King. I don't know if you've heard of Burger King before.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Technically.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Made my way up to the Whopper Station. That was my first accolade of cooking life. But then started cooking at a pretty predominant restaurant in my hometown of Billings, Montana. Learned all kinds of fresh produce products, got my chops there, off to culinary school, um, and have been pretty much cooking my entire life. Um so this is now morphed into what Evan said. Uh new passion is talking to people like you, talking to people in the beef industry all together, um, and Wagyu is kind of our is our jam. And uh the coolest part about all of that is all of my past history of cooking, I'm now applying it to all of these beautiful, lovely ranchers and products that get sent to us, and it is by far the greatest beef that we have ever tasted. And to be honest, it's raised in the United States, and they're gonna be there's gonna be red flags thrown all over the place, like, oh, that's not Wagyu. Well, yeah, it is. So do your research. We can get into genetics later. I know you like that subject also, but uh yeah, we like we like to argue those points a lot.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

I love that. No, I I think uh yeah, I think the Wagyu thing is still kind of an unknown, so I'm excited for you guys to uh to be you know taking that taking that flag and also helping us understand it more. Um and so you guys are based in Washington?

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Seattle, Washington, yeah. That's where our restaurants and butcher shop are, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Very cool. Okay. Um but then came from Billings. Now I'm just you know on a side note, kind of curious which restaurant in Billings.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Um you're probably not gonna it's not there anymore. Uh it was a place called Sydney's Pizza Cafe, which was a Peter Kelsey design, kind of an offshoot of like uh California pizza kitchens, kind of a little skin putt putt kind of idea. Um but as a youngster and not knowing how to cook anything, it was a pretty decent education for a 15-year-old.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Absolutely, absolutely. We I just love Billings and um we used to uh with my last job, we used to host events at the Northern. Um yeah, the the really fancy hotel right there downtown, Billings.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Haven't we all into the lobby?

What American Wagyu Really Means

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Uh yeah, it's a great spot. Um very fun. Well, cool. Okay, so you guys are based in Seattle. Well, um I feel like we um I mean, let's talk about Wagyu. So you already kind of brought it. Why how is American Wagyu regular Wagyu? Let's just jump in.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

Go ahead, Evan. I you're chomping, I can see it.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Well, I mean, I think the first thing when we when we got into it, we we ordered that whole Wagyu beef, and I was looking for podcasts, I was looking for books, I was looking for information about Wagyu, and there really wasn't anything, especially about American Wagyu, and that's so that's really why we started the podcast, The Meat Dudes. Um and you know, it there's so many misconceptions out there about what Wagyu is, and Wagyu is only that that bright white and pink A5 Wagyu from Japan, otherwise, it's not real Wagyu. Well, Wagyu is just it means Japanese cow, right? So in the 90s, there was about 200 and some uh Japanese black cows that came over to the US legally, and since then we have been raising, I say we, but the the industry has been raising full-blood wagyu beef in the United States. So it really is just all about the genetic. So every single Wagyu cow, um, or most most wagyu cows in the United States can be traced all the way back to those original cows that were brought over in the 90s. Now, I think the biggest thing with the wagyu industry right now is there isn't a lot of transparency, and there's a lot of people out there saying that they have Wagyu beef. I've got an Arby's Wagyu burger, you know. I go to a every shop down in California has has Wagyu beef burgers, and like where does it come from? So that's where we really want to, you know, help with the transparency of it and and show people that it's always great, no matter where you buy your beef, it's always great to know where your beef comes from. That's the number one thing, whether you're buying conventional beef, whether you're buying Wagyu beef, know where it comes from. So you can see if it's actually registered. Is it with the New Mexico Beef Council, is it with the American Wagyu Association, the Akaushi Wagyu Association, the Australian Wagyu Association, like any of these things, you know, that you want to have that credibility there. Um, and and so that's that's one of the main things that we always that we always talk about. But yes, it comes back to uh Japanese genetics raised in the U.S. That's what we call American Wagyu. American Wagyu is just a Wagyu cow, could be full blood, could be crossed with an Angus cow to make it an F1 cross. That is also a Wagyu, that is going to be 50% Wagyu, 50% Angus. There's purebred Wagyu, which is basically Wagyu beef that is 93.75% um wagyu genetics, and then another, you know, basically 7% other. So that means that down the line from the 1990s to to now, it's somewhere it's been crossbred and then brought back up. Um so there's a it's a it's a spectrum. That's what we try to get across. It's not just that A5 Wagyu that you can have two ounces of and think, oh, I'm full. Like this is American Wagyu beef. And from F1 cross to full blood, it looks amazing. It looks like ultra prime beef. You can buy you can buy F1 cross Denver steaks for$15. You can buy a full blood tomahawk for$200. There's everything in between, and that's like the big thing right there. It's not just$200 a pound anymore.

SPEAKER_04 8:09

It's everything.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

We're also here to squash the bullshit, right? There's no such thing as Kobe in the United States. You're not getting Kobe. You're not. You're not getting Kobe. Right. Yeah. Also, let's say we're not going to name said fast food restaurant, but they say they've got a Kobe or a uh Wagyu burger. I think I already dropped the Arby's, but yeah. So we learned last week that there was uh an executive that was kind of in charge of that whole movement and program, and 25% of the grind was actually a little bit of Wagyu.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

So Tyler, that that's that's one of the issues, right? Is that there's like like so so technically it is, but there's no there's no, you know, the USDA isn't coming in and saying it has to be this this much right now. That's a huge thing.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

We're we're pushing for that certification, right? And like even myself, like just flipping this restaurant into uh Wagyu Smash Burger um concept about seven seven months ago, I was very concerned with my custom grind. So I got in contact with our number one meat guys that uh do an amazing job for us, Preservation Meat Collective. And uh we decided that we were gonna do at least 52% in the grind. So it's gonna be uh either a purebred and Angus grind or whatever. So I got pretty nerdy about it because I didn't want to false advertise myself and then stick my foot in my mouth, which I'm used to doing on the regular, but well, I that's actually an interesting thing too on your on your special grind.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

I didn't know about that at restaurants until working at the beef council. We we sponsored a green chili cheeseburger smackdown. There's a bunch of green chili cheeseburger contests in New Mexico, it's very fun. It's our tradition in the smackdown. Uh so the the um the green chili cheeseburger smackdown is like the second weekend in September, and then the green, the original Green Chili Cheeseburger contest, I think is what it's called, but it's called the original, is at the state fair also in September. It's like the first two weeks of September are two big cheeseburger, green chili cheeseburger contests. But we sponsored the beef for the SmackDown. And what I told the restaurants is say, I said, hey, I had assumptions that they might have a, you know, a secret sauce. And I said, I'm just gonna reimburse you for the beef you're buying. I'm not gonna tell you what beef to buy because it's a restaurant, I get it, and you're you're making your special, you know, secret, secret thing. And I go, and I said, if you even want to white out something about the beef, but you just want to, I just need to say beef on the rest receipt. I just want to see beef and I'll reimburse it. Um, and it was neat because it was, you know, somebody, one of them had had three different places he sourced the beef from, and it was, you know, a 70-30 here and an 80-20 there and a this and that and whatever, and he mixed his own, you know, mix. And then another one was buying, you know, local New Mexico beef. And so it was just fun to see and fun to learn about that restaurant side of it, chef side of it, that you're, you know, to me, I'm like, oh, I don't know, is it 80-20? Is it 90? What what are you buying? I don't know. But then does it taste good? Is my real question, right? Because I'm not in the restaurant business.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Yeah, right there.

unknown 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, there's a lot that goes behind it. Uh that's very interesting. Um, so okay, so so when you say the Kobe, that is uh that is like comes from a specific region. It's kind of like champagne, right?

SPEAKER_05 11:43

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

So then it could it would have to be exported in a in a box to get here, anyways, because that that beef would have to be raised there. That'd be pretty complicated.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

And it's very, very expensive. Okay. So if you see somebody that has a Kobe beef burger, you know that it's not actually Kobe beef because that burger would be$150 to$200. And that's sometimes that, but I will say, like, in the beginning, like Wagyu's a young industry. So some people when when it first came over, they were calling it Kobe because people associated that with Wagyu. And so it's just been called that. But now we're trying to clear that up.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Ultimately confused everybody.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, there are restaurants have to have like a certain like like license from like that. Kobe beef has its own like marketing like firm, basically, and you have to have like a special privilege and like license and uh uh authorization to be able to serve it at your restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

So very com comparable to champagne in some ways, right? That you can't use the name if you're a winery so you cannot use a champagne name.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Yeah, so like is it all uh all all Kobe is Wagyu, but not all Wagyu is Kobe is basically.

Kobe Claims And Massage Myths

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Cool. I get that. Okay. Um and then what about uh I didn't I didn't uh ask you guys this before. What about the Wagyu and the massaging the beef thing that people always talk about? Is that what's that? Why is why do people always tell me that? Is that a real thing? I always tell them I don't think that's a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Probably not. I mean, they just they're they're they're very docile animals. Okay. And in in the Jap in Japanese culture, they they're they don't have a lot of land. They don't have like wide open, you know, grasslands to to raise a ton of wagyu beef, so they are raised in smaller, you know, areas so that they don't have hundreds of Wagyu cattle out there in in you know, each each rancher doesn't. They have like two to ten. So they take really good care of them. And I don't think they massage them, but they they they make sure that they're very low stress so they don't build up that cortisol because they want to make sure that it's the meat is extremely tender and these cows have a great life. But I don't think that they're just sitting there massaging them all day long. They probably take good care of them.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

That's what I've said, yeah, 100%. We we hope and we believe they're taking care of them. But yeah, I always have said I I think it has more to do with you know the genetics that that marbling and that that tenderness comes because this is a unique breed of cattle that causes it's all genetics, it's all genetics.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

I'd say 90% of genetics and 10% of how it's treated and how it's raised. There's debate about that.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

There's debate about that. In fact, that even like the some people say 70-30, some people say 40-60, but we know that you when you start with Wego, you're you start with a higher floor, absolutely start with a higher floor of of marbling.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

I hope I didn't just get myself in trouble. Our rancher's gonna be like, What'd you say?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

No, oh no, uh oh.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Oh well we uh well and and you know, we talk about genetics, there's there's you know, the conversation goes a lot of ways. Every rancher is thinking about genetics. Every beef producer is thinking about genetics, whether it be, you know, we had a conversation with someone about you know beef on dairy and having, you know, now dairy animals they're pre producing a beef calf and they're making that cross because they're making a more valuable calf in the dairy processor. We talk about, you know, a lot of a lot of the black cows are considered angus, right? And that's because you know, somewhere on the line there was Angus bred in. Um and yeah, so it's it is complicated, but every rancher, every beef producer, I should say, because you don't have to be a rancher, you can be a feedlot operator. Uh um, you know, some some cattlemen want to be called cattlemen. There's even some that wanna that are okay with being called beef farmers. Um in New Mexico, you're typically a rancher, not a farmer, though. Yeah. Um so I'm always careful with what label. Um yeah, absolutely, genetics are always a conversation. So Wagyu is a breed of beef, and it's a breed of beef that originated in Japan, brought to America. Same genetics, same cattle, uh theoretically, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Um, same genetics. It's all traceable, right? It's all traceable back to original cattle, you know, that we're showing here. And there's four different breeds, too. There's four different breeds of of Waigu. There's a Japanese black, there's the red, which is the Akaushi, um, and then there's the shorthorn and the pole. And you see probably 90% black over here, and and maybe maybe 80%, maybe, maybe 10% Akaushi red, and then not very much of the shorthorn and pole yet. Um, the black is like known for marbling the best. The the Akaushi is known for like more of a tender, meatier flavor that still marbles really well. And then you can cross those too. We've seen people have the black and red cross. And I mean, like I said, it's a huge spectrum. That's what we love about it. That you don't have to find one thing and say, oh, it's I don't want to spend that much money. Yeah, actually, there's a lot of different ways you can do Wagyu.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

And I can imagine, probably down where you are, Caroline, that uh there's always this silent competition between ranches and who comes up with the best product, right? Well, yeah, everybody's trying to do it. We're learning like there's so much dynamic in the Wagyu industry because it is so small. Um, everybody knows each other, everybody knows what everybody's doing. There's some gatekeeping going on of like, oh, this is my feed, I don't want to tell anybody this feed. And then you get into the Akaushi, the red versus the black. There's a lot of ranchers out there that are like swear by Akaushi, but most of them are like, nope, black all the way. So it's pretty, it's kind of fun actually to get in between all this stuff and kind of poke the bear a little bit and see who says what, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Well, absolutely. Yeah, well, and and breed of cattle means means so much to to so many people, right? So um we uh yeah, we have there's there's you know, a lot of the cattle in New Mexico are have to be kind of desert acclimated. And so there's a lot of the Brahmin influence or you know, a lot of Brangis cattle. And sometimes sometimes they talk about, oh, there's a lot of ear on those cattle. Well, in uh in a lot of ways, it's an important part of our climate to have a to have an animal that is adapted. And so, um, so yeah, but they call because you know the the Brahmas have the big floppy ears, the really cute ears, honestly. Um and so the Brangus, they always say, Oh, it's got a lot of ear on them, you know, you might um, but it's it's become a great breed. Um, and then there's other there's other breeds, you know. Um we personally have coriani cattle, same thing. They've got a lot of ear and they've got a really long face, and so not everybody like them. And then they're also a horned animal. Um, and so so there's there's you know, when when I tell Koriani.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

And it's corriente, uh, is is really how it's said, I think. Um, and it's uh um they are a horned animal and they they are where like what ropers like rodeo people use is the corriente. And so um when I I always have to apologize to my board or people, I'm like, I know it's my corianis, I'm sorry, you know, because they're just not that beautiful beef animal that even, you know, a a wagyu is gonna be more high esteemed than than a coriani. But I don't mean that in disparagement, I mean that in you know self-deprecation. I love a coriani, so if anybody's listening, I understand I love all breeds of cattle and I represent all breeds of cattle. Um, but it is there is competition and there's preferences. Um and how fun is that? That there's so many breeds out there that we can have have a conversation and have uh you know fun preferences and teasing each other.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

That's the longhorn, almost longhorn steer, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yeah, yep, yep. Corianis look like a longhorn. They're just usually a solid black or a solid red, I think is from from what I understand. Um, and then the the black, the black ones are the maybe the ideal coriani. Um and then but they cross them a lot, right? Just like you they cross with longhorns all the time. All the time. So yeah, it's like that rodeo-looking cattle, but but they're very drought adapted, right? So personally, I I like that they're drought adapted, they're stronger, um, they're they're used to walking really far for water, and and they people like to joke that they can live on rocks. Um, of course, of course, our cattlemen and women are taking better care of them than giving them rocks.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

It's the same as the Brahma, right? The Brahma's pretty drought tolerant, right? Yes, but he's got the camel hump.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yep, exactly. Yeah, that Brahma, that Brahma could live on probably the same thing, they'd say, right? Brahmas, Brahmins can live on on uh on rocks and and weeds. Um yeah, so no, but like you said, it's the competition, it's the fun conversation, and and I would like to think that usually it's all in good fun fun, and we all understand that that people are raising cattle based on a preference, based on their environment, based on you know what what they had access to, right? So that's why yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Um and like you said we haven't seen any fist fights yet over it.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Right, right, right. We're gonna tease and and what a fun industry. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I that's kind of my favorite part about the industry is is we can tease and we can have fun, but most ranchers are are willing to you know laugh at themselves or or be humble and and understand that that uh they're just trying to do the best they can with what's been given to them.

SPEAKER_05 21:37

Totally.

Docile Cattle And Ranch Observations

SPEAKER_01 21:38

You're right, totally right. Absolutely. Um well, so we like to talk about like cattle handle handling processes or growing processes. I we've kind of already talked about the you know misconceptions, uh, maybe some, but is there anything in particular as you guys have talked to um talk to ranchers, wagyu ranchers, was there is there anything that stands out, especially coming from you know your background on the food side that you guys appreciate or you learned about cattle handling practices?

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Uh I think one of the most interesting things for me is how docile, like Evan said, these animals are and where they're very just kind of they're not picky, they're just sort of selective and kind of free range, if you will. Um, if they're hungry, they'll mosey on over and eat a little bit, and then they're tired and they'll just mosey on back. And chill out. Like, it's not like when you get into an full Angus ranch where you throw feed over the fence and run the other way because they are gonna come after it. It's been really interesting to hear stories and actually see these cattle in person and and like sugar tawny at bar R. How big is that animal have? It's like three 2800, 3,000-pound animal. He's eight, he's 18 years old, still still the sire. And I jumped the fence and just hopped over there and started petting him. And like I wouldn't do that at uh at an Angus Bowl, right? Those guys are scary.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Um we had a button that's been kind of interesting to see how that works on the ranch.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Yeah, we had a really fun podcast with um our buddy Adam Wackle out of Plum Creek Plum Creek Wagyu in Nebraska, where he actually did a full podcast with his little headset on and all his Wagyu cattle around him in his in his finishing uh a lot.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

They were in the middle of the field.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

I love that. And like they were just coming up and like sniffing the camera and he's he did the whole thing, and he's like, I would never do this if it was Angus, you know, because they're just a lot. He just wanted to prove really how docile these animals are, and it was it was really cool. It was it was cool to see that, and and I think that helps with a lot of the tenderness of the meat. Um and yeah, and and they're in their I we always kind of say they're almost more like cats, and the Angus is like dogs, right? You know, like you put the you put the feet out for the cat and they just kind of eat when they want, and you put the feet out for the dog and it's gone. Um, but yeah, it's it's but they don't another point is they don't they look different, right? Like so every Angus rancher, every rancher that doesn't raise wagyu looks at these and they're like, I'm not I don't want that thing. Like that looks ugly, it's small, it doesn't look like it has enough yield or meat on it, you know. Um, and so it's but when I like who'd our our buddy Jesse when she said, Yeah, but when you take their shirts off, man, they look pretty dang good.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Oh I love that. I think uh I and I think too, you know, sometimes now Angus, they're kind of breeding in more docility, right? And it's you know become more of a focus in some ways, but I think that's really interesting. I do have there is there one of our um actually my first podcast I did was with Belinda Lavender of Lavender Brangis, and I have pictures of her little Brangis cows kissing her and hugging on her, and that was pretty cute too. So um I I don't know if that's a Brangis breed characteristic or a Belinda's cattle characteristic. But uh no, I love that. That's really neat. Um are they so just out of you know curiosity and and uninformed, are they drought tolerant? Do they like specific climates or or do you know about them in that way?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

You know, I a lot of people, so we're talking like full blood, black, um, they're they're raised in Texas. They're raised up north in Nebraska, you know, they're they're everywhere. And so I know like we talked to our buddies down in Florida, uh, Everglades, uh Everglades Ranch, and they raise like uh uh uh an F1 cross, which is 50% Wagyu, and then um an Angus Brahmin mix, um, because that doesn't matter. But honestly, um we hear that you know I've heard stories of of you know uh Wagyu that's been raised in Texas and they moved them up to Minnesota and they're just fine. And so it's it's really unique. Yeah, I've heard that a lot from a lot of different ranchers that they can go pretty much wherever and they're pretty they're pretty successful. Um but they are you gotta think of Japan and like um its climate as well, like like where they come from. Typically, you know, like in Kobe, isn't Kobe what they say right exactly in line with uh the Everglades ranch in Florida, like so they have like the actual exact same like you know uh climate. So yeah, so I mean I I think it does probably a little bit better in the warmer. I I you know don't totally quote me on that because so many people have told me that it's does just as well up in the cold.

Climate Fit And Longer Finishing

SPEAKER_01 26:38

So they seem pretty adaptable, very, yeah, yeah, very adaptable. And it's a longer growing period, right? So we saw I I was able to see um in Australia there was a university project, and I wish I had remembered the university off the top of my mind. Um, but they were doing a project where they took all the breeds of cattle or a bunch of they you know chose a few breeds. So it was Herford, it was Wagyu, it was Black Angus, it was Brahma, Charlet, and then maybe a cross, maybe like a baldy or something. Um, but they had them all in the pen and they were getting the same feed in the same, they were born in the same week. They were all of those things just to test the breeds. And the Wagyu was significantly smaller, and that was the whole conversation is they take a longer to get to um a finishing point, right? Um, and and that was just an interesting thing, right? That's probably why they're so marbled, right? They're an older animal at the point of harvest.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

And they're kind of like slow fed, too. That's a that's a big thing a lot of the Wagyu ranchers talk about, is I have they can do a slow feed for a longer period of time. So they a lot of them, you know, depending on an F1 cross or a full blood, will will harvest that 24 to 29 months. That's really a sweet spot.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Therein lies the problem, the perception problem, is that yes, it does take longer for these animals to reach harvest, but when they do reach harvest, the quality is uh exponentially better to where it's worth more money. So it's kind of like how you look at it, right? So a lot of ranchers like, oh, I can't take so like I can't make any money on that. Like, well, once you see the product compared to your product that you're raising right now, and you don't need to go full blood, you don't need to go purebred, just start with a cross in your ranch. And we have tons of tons of people out there on our team that can do that for any ranch in the United States. Like they are specialists in saying, like, hey, I'm gonna come into your ranch, I will turn your this product around in three years, and your cattle are gonna be worth X percentage more per pound. Trust in me, I got it. Like, they're so good at it. I don't even understand what they're saying.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah, but they know the genetics and they know which bowl to cross or whatever. That's so neat. Yeah, um, and I did as as you I just looked up really quick. It was University of New England in Amidale in Australia that was doing that study. So they should get a shout out because it's very interesting. And I don't know what the end of the I never found the end result of the study. Um, but anyways, uh so um so that's really neat that you're saying it takes longer, but you're gonna have that that increase in margins in the end. So it's it's probably scary though, if you're used to raising, you know, Angus or, you know, a black baldy, the Hereford Angus cross, or you're used to a certain breed, you if you make a change, you've got to wait. And then if you're finishing them out, right? So if you're if you're finishing them out, you've got to wait that first time you've got to wait two years, sort of.

unknown 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

So that's probably uh, you know, scary, but you give them, you know, give them the confidence of some consulting and and information about yes, and maybe you do it in you know parts. So you get you know a small paycheck here, and then in you know, two years you get that big one, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:52

You should tell the story about uh Nashville when we were after after hours, we were sitting at the bar having a drink, and these two older ranchers, I don't know, must have been mid-60s, 70s, and they walked up and said, You guys were the ones cooking all those Wagyu steaks. We're gonna go home right now and introduce Wagyu into our ranch. These are 70-year-old people right there. Love that at 70, doing that their whole lives, their minds were changed just by stopping by and tasting this meat. They were like, Oh my god.

Why Wagyu Feels Like A Trend Shift

SPEAKER_02 30:30

Yeah, and I think most of the ranchers most yeah, most of the ranchers we talked to, a lot of them have Angus herds and they're and they're they do F1 cross where they they mix the you know the Wagyu and the Angus. And so, you know, I for us, like for me, it's like it's it's such a better product, but obviously I wouldn't tell anyone to just go, hey, just jump full in and go, because like it takes three years, right? Like that's insane. So like I don't know, test a couple things, you know, like work, work, work, your work your way up to it, um, and then see how how that how that you know how that beef turns out. Because a lot of people we we deal with right now have their Angus herd, have their F1 herd, and are working on their full blood herd. And they're seeing, yeah, they're seeing huge, huge, um, you know, a huge benefit out of that. And and when we were down at Catalcon Like Tyler was saying, Tyler cooked up a hundred Wagyu steaks from eight different ranches in two days on one pan. And we served them. I sliced everyone, served them to all of these ranchers, and I thought we were gonna get so much like pushback, but everyone was like, oh my god, this is actually really, really good beef. Um, and and so yeah, like you said, people are coming up to us saying, I might, I might get into this, maybe you know, maybe I'll I'll buy a uh a full-bled bull and let's see what happens. So yeah, I'm uh I'm pretty confident that a lot of those people in the next five to ten years are gonna start making that change just to see, you know, what it takes and and seeing seeing the the difference between the beef.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

I kind of uh equate this as my chef background to uh I don't know if you all remember the organic label coming to fruition, right? When you go to even like Safeway or Albertson's or Fred Meyer or whatever, the produce section's gigantic. And then they have this teeny tiny little lit-up section that said organic. That was you know, 15 years ago. You go to any grocery store, I don't know how it is down there, but in Seattle, it's a very King County, I should say, help very health-driven kind of grassroots kind of folk out here that that like some of them I only eat organic, I only eat grass-fed beef, you know. So I think that this is kind of the beginning of that trend where when you would go to said vegetable farmer and say, hey, you should you should grow organic vegetables, it would take 10 years for the USDA to certify that that farm to be, and they're like, I can't wait 10 years, and like what if one of my crops goes bad and da-da-da-da-da. So I understand the fear of breaking that mold and maybe fucking it up. But I do believe that this is kind of the beginning of that movement to where once people really understand the genetics and the quality of Wagyu and how little it takes to actually move that into your uh your breed that you have now, I think it's sort of we're on the precipice of that beginning to be a huge thing.

unknown 33:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

I I love it. Yeah, dietary nutrition, nutrition values, all that stuff. We can get all nerdy about that if you want, but it's it's it's good for you beef, it's heart healthy beef. Yeah, yeah. And it's your job to sell more beef, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Right, it's my job. Well, and I was thinking too, as you're talking about the the um folks at CalCon, what is the you know, the common denominator of all of us in in the industry for food, for for ranching, all of that is good beef, right? We all love the taste of good beef, right? And so what a great selling point. You're eating a good beef steak and it's wait, what is this? Wait, how do I do this? How do I create more of these? How do I, you know, um, so I love that. We were at KettleCon as well. I'm I'm uh so bummed. I missed your booth. We were outside with the hot air balloon most of the time, though. So we didn't get to see a lot of we didn't get to see a lot of the inside. We were freezing though.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Oh, it was nice. It was not nice.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

No, it was very cold. There was one morning it was 19 degrees, and we had our big Beef It's What's for Dinner balloon, and um it was we were out there from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. And uh it was like 19 to maybe 25 that whole morning. And I came inside and I was just like shaking us sitting in one of my meetings, and I'm like, I think I'm cold. And they're like, Do we need to turn the air down? And I was like, No, I think I think it's just from you know, residual effect of ballooning, as they call it, because in New Mexico we're yeah, yeah. So, but we but we survived. Um, I did make it into the rover booth because you know there's discounts at the rover booth, and I I'm a sucker. Uh, but we love we love Catalcon and we're excited to go back to Nashville next year. So hopefully you guys will be back there. We'll see you there. Yeah, I love it. I love it. And and isn't that the story though? Everything happens at the bar or the restaurant after. Um the best part about Catalcon is the people that are going to Catalcon and the networking that easily happens over a beer or a steak or or something. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

Yeah, that was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

I'm a big fan. Okay, so what about um what about you guys? Um, we loved ask this of ranchers, but what's the most rewarding part of being in the food industry or or you know the wagyu industry now? Um, what's the most rewarding part to you?

SPEAKER_03 35:49

For me, it's community. I just love to network, I love to talk with people, I love to get I love to continue to be educated. And that's one of the that's one of the greatest things about a culinary background is you can't ever learn at all. There is no such thing, right? Whichever direction you take off of culinary school or whatever restaurant you worked at, or like I cooked Italian food for 10 plus years of my career and love it. And then it kind of steered into Asian cuisine. Love it. And like, but I can't learn at all. And I can't learn at all. But so continuing my to educate myself and and this is a new one for me, talking to ranchers, talking about gene DNA, genetics, it's like super nerdy shit. I I love it. It's fun.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yeah. What about you, Evan?

SPEAKER_02 36:40

I I like um I like that it's a new that the wagyu industry is a new growing industry, and we can influence that um positively and really try to change people's minds and keep educating them about this beef. Um, that that's a big thing for me. I think we love doing education. We love talking to people and telling them how to do it the right way and to take the fear out of cooking wagyu beef. Um, and that's that's super rewarding. And yeah, the industry is just so small and so tight-knit, and it's really cool to be a part of that. Um, and I just I've always loved beef. I've always been a fan of beef in the beef industry. And I and this is uh this is a cool thing. I was actually I was actually in the cannabis industry uh before it took off. And so to me, I like I look at the cannabis industry and the in the wagon industry as almost being like the same thing where you know I remember when it was 2010 before any of it was legalized in any state you were ever in. Um one of my buddies looked at me and said, you know, in 10 years, people are going to be taking a CBD pill with their vitamin D pill in every single morning. And it's just funny how that's come to be, where you know, grandmas and parents are out there just getting little gummies. Like that just helps me fall asleep a little bit better. It's like it's so normalized, and that's what we want with Wagyu, instead of people saying, Oh, that's fake or that's expensive, or you know, you can't I don't know how to cook it. We want everyone to be out there going, oh yeah, well, yeah, I'm I might think about getting the F1 cross Denver steak tonight. What are you thinking about? You know, I want people to use that same verbiage and say that those that same language and have it just be a normal thing. And by all means, we don't expect everybody to eat Wagyu beef every single night, but I think everybody should try it because it's awesome. And if you try it, you'll probably have it more often. And if you know where your beef's coming from, you can actually find different cuts and talk to different butchers and and and utilize that experience to get cheaper beef.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

I could pull my 10-year-old out of the office right now. We're on spring break over here.

unknown 38:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Because she had a uh uh a full bud uh wagyu tenderloin last night for dinner.

SPEAKER_05 38:48

Yes, that's that's her jam.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

She was a she's a tenderloin girl. This is delightful, Dad. Just love, just lovely preparation. Yeah. Our daughters are spoiled. Yeah.

Cooking Wagyu Without The Fear

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Yeah. Our our daughter, we often ask her what she wants for dinner, and she'll say, Can I have steak? And we're like, what a kid, you know. Like I never would ask my parents for a steak. Like that was like special. Um, and now we we realize how important it is in adolescence to eat beef. Like it's great. It's a highly nutritious and delicious, right? We love to say, yeah, um we uh so you guys mentioned, you know, lowering the barriers to entry too. You guys like to do with the education. So that's something we love to do too. So that's why there's always beef councils have always been known for recipes, and the goal of recipes is to lower the barrier of entry. When you're buying an expensive cut of beef specifically, we want to lower the the fear of like you can buy this and you're not gonna mess it up. You we have a recipe, we've all done it, and then of course, you know, there's other cuts too that are less expensive that that um we were talking about yesterday, the the chuck roast uh is a cook once, dine twice kind of recipe, and um and all of those. So how like can you talk about ways to cook, how to lower that barrier to entry? What what's some of your hot tips for if you're buying, if I'm gonna go out and buy Wagyu for for the first time to prepare myself? Love it.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Well, um, let's see. That's a loaded question.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

You're like, which which answer do I give, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Tyler, let me start by saying this that Wagyu beef is super forgivable. So it's very good from medium rare to medium well, from 115 degrees internal temp to 145 degrees internal temp. And so it's really hard to mess up in that sense. But the thing that that Tyler and I are doing before he goes in and tells you how he cooks all these steaks, we are with our Wagyu map, that was one of the things is we want people to be able to go to our Meet Dudes approved Wagyu map, find a ranch, and and and find the ranch profile and go, I really agree with this ranch and their philosophy and how they feed their cattle. And the right next to it is a video of Steph Tyler and me cooking the actual steak. So we were saying, this is how you cook that ribeye from this Florida grass-fed Wagyu ranch. This is how you cook that tenderloin from that southern Texas grain-fed, you know, Wagyu ranch versus a Eastern Washington barley-finished wagyu ranch. So everything cooks a little bit differently, but it's all very forgivable. And and we just that's the biggest thing is we want people to take that fear out of it so you can actually go to the website and see exactly how to cook this wagyu beef when it launches. But Tyler is the expert on actually how to cook all this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

When it when in doubt, sear it out.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Yes, right? Oh, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

Yeah, so that's gonna take out so much room for error. Um and definitely like you can't just one pan sear on the stovetop, uh two and a half inch thick cut New York, right? You gotta finish that in the oven. Um but uh if you have a one inch, one and a half inch thick cut ribeye, it's pan seared, cast iron, medium high heat, keep your eye on it, and it's gonna be four four minutes aside, and it's gonna be a perfect mid-rare.

SPEAKER_04 42:18

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

It's super simple, honestly, and like I kind of just say keep it simple, stupid, K-I-S-S.

SPEAKER_05 42:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Um, don't overthink it. The only one that you really have to be careful of is grilling. Yes. Um there's a lot of controversy about you can never grill waggy beef. Yeah, you can, um, but you gotta stand there and keep your eye on it 100% of the time. Right? You gotta move it around, you gotta flip it, you gotta pull it off to a cool side. I like to keep a hot side of the grill and a cooler side of the grill, kind of indirect cooking, just in case you get a little bit of flare up. Move it, let it chill, get back after it. Open flame grilling, wood grilling, charcoal grilling is a little bit more labor of love when you're doing wagyu. You gotta keep your eye on it. Okay. Um, but it's not impossible.

SPEAKER_05 43:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

Um we've just been doing it the last three weeks out on the back patio. And but like I said, a pan seared Zabaton, pan seared New York, pan seared filet, pan seared top sirloin, pan seared culottes all of that's got the limit, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Yeah. And are you when you pan sear uh steak, um, are you using butter?

SPEAKER_03 43:30

No. No. Depending on the percentage, um, say purebred and higher, even some of the F1s you get that are 50-50, you don't really need much fat at all because the the fat, the the wagyi fat specifically starts to melt at about 70 degrees. Okay. So I often when I'm butchering, I often do it in the cooler, in the walk-in. Unless I'm really fast, or unless it's super cold and chilly outside, so we don't have to worry about that. But if it's summertime, I gotta cut so fast or do it, do it in the walk-in, right? So, yeah, answer your question. Ideally, I like to use just a little bit of tallow from said ranch. Um if you don't have tallow, you can use like a very mild flavored oil with a high high smoke point, avocado oil, um grapeseed oil, canola if you have to, but something that that's that's not gonna alter. The flavor of the beef, because that's ideally what we're trying to do is uh educate everybody on the flavor of the beef. I usually just like to salt my steaks. I don't like to no piepa. Just just just no pieppa, just salt. Originally, like later on down the road, I'll do some sort of steak rub or whatever if I want to, but for the first time tasting a steak from a certain uh part of the country, the United States, or a certain ranch and feed and everything. I just salt it because I want to taste the terroir, if you will, of where that where the cattle are raised and where it comes from.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

So I'm kind of no well often often um we talk to ranchers and chefs and it's the salt. Just a little bit of salt, just a little bit of salt on your steak. Um we love to play around with seasonings too, and then um but the tallow, I was gonna say, if you don't have tallow from the local ranch, they sell tallow at every grocery store now. So there's we we've always got tallow in our in our um fridge now, so that way beef can be for breakfast too, because there's no other way to cook eggs.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Hey Tyler, talk about the product from Marble Ridge too. Oh yeah. Um so at Catalcon, we were in Wagyu, what do they call it? Wagyu row or Wagyu Valley or something like that. Okay. Um and Marble Ridge down on the edge had this had a bottle of ultra clarified Wagyu tallow, which was shelf stable and like liquid.

SPEAKER_05 46:08

Yeah, it looked like it was like all of them.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

I have a jar at home of it just sitting on my countertop, and I use it for everything, sauteing my veggies, scrambling my eggs, whatever. So it was like I didn't get into the nerdy science part as much as I should have, but it's almost like a centrifuge. It was like a pressure, a time, a temperature, uh like yeah, and then it comes out this ultra clarified tallow that doesn't solidify. It was wild. And it's funny.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

It's a cool thing too. The Mar Marble Ridge Wagyu, they're awesome. And uh it's cool because it's another thing, like making it that lower uh barrier to entry. Like some people don't want to scoop a jar of tallow and put it in there. Like my wife would never do that, right? She's like, ah, that looks crazy to me. But if I had some tallow olive oil and I just, you know, it looked like olive oil and poured it in there, it's so much easier and it cooks the same. And it was so it's a really cool invented product. We're hoping that that gets on the shelf soon.

Feedlots Family Ranches And Reality Checks

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Yeah, that sounds that sounds very inventive. Because yeah, you're scooping out the tallow. But I've I've adjusted and I I love it. We um we love using tallow and and trying to use it as much as we can. We just kind of pop it in and then and then there's a lot of local producers here in New Mexico that have tallow lotions and tallow chapsticks and all of that. So um we we try and uh go all in. We're all in for beef. Even our dogs eat eat beef. Um we love that. Okay. So um uh we always ask ranchers about this, um, but tell us about a time you learned a hard lesson. I think just the human side of it, that we're all the same, we're all learning lessons. Um, can you think of a time that you learned a hard lesson?

SPEAKER_02 47:55

Ooh, I think one for me, you know, in in the beef industry is, you know, before we really got into this, and when we were talking to some ranchers, now I think freak we talked to over like 75 ranchers from all over the US, even in Australia, Japan, South America as well. Just got off the phone with somebody from Brazil. Um I used to think that the beef industry was, you know, everything was corn fed and everything was finished in these feedlots on dirt and the cattle were terrible. And I remember Arlie from Bar R, which is like Bar R Wagyu up in eastern Washington. Like her father, J Dr. Jerry Reeves, is like the godfather of one of the godfathers of American Wagyu. He helped actually get that original in uh export of um uh Japanese cattle to Washington State, uh the Wagyu cattle. Um, and so we're up there and we're talking about, you know, like, oh, these feedlots and that, like on a podcast. And she was like, hold on, Evan. Actually, a lot of these cattle that are on those feedlots right now were raised by like really, you know, small family-run farms. And I was like, oh man, I was like stuck my foot in my mouth. Like I didn't even realize that at that point. Um, and there it is, like, you know, that's why we love telling these rancher stories, because when people they they understand that, there's so much the there's so much fear, so much fear is taken out of the of the beef industry when you understand that where what the rancher is coming from and and what they're just doing their best, and they're all these small family-run farms, and they've been doing it forever. And it's really, you know, the the big four, you know, meat packers that that that are hurting the industry. It's not these, it's not how they feed their cow. It's actually, you know, they're doing a great job getting getting these amazing, this amazing product, you know, to market. And so she corrected me in such a sweet way, but um, but I was like, oh, okay, you know what, you're right. I should probably back off on that and realize that there's so much more to the industry than than what I what I originally thought before I got into it.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Well, absolutely. And for New Mexico ranchers, a lot of them are what we'd call a cow calf rancher, cow calf operator, right? So they're raising calves. Well, then we don't have access to corn or grains here in New Mexico, right? We're a desert. So we've got, you know, around the Rio Gran Corridor, there's some alfalfa farms, but there's not a lot of farming in New Mexico to get that corn that gives that, you know, corn-fed, um, corn finished or grain finished flavor that a lot of, you know, Americans uh prefer or or want, right? Um, and so in New Mexico, you've got to send your calves after a certain time, you've got to send your calves to somewhere where there's access to grain, right? And so, like you said, then they go to those feedlots. And then a lot of the feedlots, there's, you know, there's different types of feedlots. Um, but a lot of them are family owned or um, and then sometimes they don't even own all the cattle in them, right? It's you can retain ownership as a you know, cow kaffir operator. You send them to this massive feedlot, well, you're it's just because they have it's like you know, an apartment complex for cattle, right? And but it's an apartment complex with a cafeteria or maybe it's a dorm, you know. And so they're go to this place where feed is easier to get to, and if we, you know, with scale makes makes you know a lower cost to feed some animals and all of that. So um, yeah, so it is interesting. And in New Mexico, we don't have we don't have access to grain for grain finished cattle. We don't have access to a ton of um processors, and actually our legislation in our New Mexico Department of Ag and New Mexico Cowgrowers Associations lobbied recently to get grants for processors because New Mexico has such a shortage of processors and they don't have the you know capacity necessarily to to you know produce more New Mexico beef, right? Or you know, beef processed in New Mexico. So, anyways, I digress. A lot of it is family operations and and that you see that large thing and you see this, and sometimes people get scared, right? They want to think the small, whatever, but sometimes it's large because that's how these families can afford to continue, and that's how the cattle can make it to the finish line.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

It but it's just the unfortunate part is that 80%, 75% of Americans think that don't don't understand that, right? They just think like, oh, it's just this these big companies and this raising these cattle on these in this dirt patches and they're force feeding them. And it's like, no, that's not not correct at all.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

So Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of care and a lot of science that goes into it. I love too the feedlots. I love that there's a um there's a nutritionist for the cattle, and sometimes there's a team of nutritionists. And I think that's an important thing for people to understand. Like, I don't even have a nutritionist for myself, right? I have a dietitian on staff at New Mexico Beef Council that's wonderful, but I don't pay attention to my nutrition and my intake. But those animals at those feedlots, they to a science of what they're eating and what formula and what percentage of protein and all these things. And I'm over here like I should probably eat less, you know, fewer cookies or whatever, you know. Um, and and uh yeah, that science and that care for the animals um is something that we love to talk about. Absolutely. I could go on and on.

SPEAKER_02 53:02

It's wild. I sent out a little questionnaire for all the ranches that signed up for the the um the maps, and they sent it back and it talks about like how do you feed your cattle? Because we want to understand that it's grass-fed versus grain fed versus what type of grain, um, just so we can try to get those flavor profiles. But almost every single person, every single rancher on the profile writes like, okay, well, uh the nutritionist name is this, and I'm like, every single one has like a nutritionist, and then they get talk about what the nutritionist is feeding the cattle. And I was like, oh my gosh, like this, yeah, it's a total, total science. It's not just, oh hey, go get some go get some food and we'll just you know see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Hope for the best.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

No, yeah, it's no, nobody wants to lose cattle or have them get sick or anything like that. Absolutely. They're treating them like like failing.

Beyond Hollywood Cuts For Better Value

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The cattle are there, there is the hard part of the understanding that they they serve a purpose. Um, and there's no good way to you know talk about that necessarily, other than they are serving a purpose. It's you know, a circle of life and very important part to feed, um, to feed the world, but they they are, they're treated with the utmost respect. And and you know, it's always like it's also economical to treat your cattle well, especially right now, because cattle prices are at you know record highs, and then they keep like getting higher and then a new record. Um, and so just for the the wallet alone, you have to take care of these animals. They're they're worth a lot of money now, right? Yeah, um in the last 10 years, they've like almost tripled in value. So, so yeah, absolutely. The the the care we we go into it. Um, I love that. Well, um, is there anything um else that you'd like to add that you wanted to make sure and get in about Wagyu?

SPEAKER_03 54:47

Um this is your time to sign, buddy. Just vomit Wagyu all over you.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

No, um, I think I mean I think we covered a lot. Like I I really love to reiterate that it's a spectrum that that it's not just A5, that it's not just$200 a pound. I mean, we have a butcher shop and we'll sell you know F1 Cross ranch steaks for 11, 12 bucks. We'll sell full blood Denver steaks, you know, eight to ten ounces for twenty, twenty-two, twenty-five bucks, depending on the ranch. You know, and so it's it's you know, when I when I walk into a big grocery store and I look at the ribeyes, they're more expensive because those are the Hollywood cuts, right? So the Hollywood cuts are the ribeye, the New York, and the tenderloin, and that makes up eight percent of the cow. So let's start exploring with all these other cuts. Could maybe grab a skirt steak, a bavette, a terrace major, a Denver, you know, work those Chuck short ribs, um, Delmonico steaks. We love Delmonico steaks. Um, we're working, you know, Chef Tyler's working with the back end of the cow. We're showing people how to roast the top sirloin, the bottom sirloin, how to braise these things. So, you know, there's there's so many more economical cuts when you when you're talking about a wagyu cow as well, because the top round is going to be very tender. The the bottom round is even going to be more tender. We've got buddies that are cutting up London broil steaks and throwing them on the grill and grilling them up and saying, you know, hey, it's not like a super tender cut, but I like I like a little bit of chew, so I want it that way. Um, so it's just it's a it's a really unique animal, we like to say. Um, and there's a huge spectrum. Know where your meat comes from, most of all, because if you know where it comes from and you can and you can see that that ranch is verified with an association and you know it's a hundred percent full blood, and you can actually trace it back to the original animals that came over here in the 90s, it's gonna be a better product, and you know that it's gonna be a better product when it's verified and there's transparency and you can actually trust the source.

SPEAKER_03 56:51

And I can I can expand on that just a little bit from from the chef standpoint and looking at the animal in its entirety, you know, eight to nine percent of an animal is the Hollywood cuts, right? The tenderloin, the ribeye, the New York. Where goes the rest of it? It can't all be grind, right? So when we're talking, we go back to when we were talking about profitability. Yes, of course, it takes a little bit longer to raise these animals, but the quality of the product that you come out is gonna be worth more whatever. So in the Wagyu animal itself, there's more stakable items than just Tinderlens, Rebey's, and New York's. You're gonna look at Kulats, completely different. The flanks are unbelievably different, the skirts are different. Um even like Eden uh full-blooded top sirloin, if I put it next to uh say a prime angus tenderloin side by side, there's not a lot of people that can tell the difference. And that's we're talking about top sirloin versus a tenderloin. So you're top talking about a$50 a pound steak versus a$13 a pound steak, you know, and people won't even know the difference. So it I mean, as far as the profitability of the animal, there's more stakable items in the animal, and that's gonna in turn make you more money.

SPEAKER_02 58:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Or make us more money, however you want that.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

You know, yeah. Or save you and save the consumer money at the end of the year.

SPEAKER_05 58:25

Or save more money if you don't want to buy that.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Because we we always said you could go get you could buy a full blood uh Denver, you know, for cheaper than you could buy a choice ribeye. And it's like unreal. Like the the difference is going to be unbelievable. You know, it's gonna be one of the best steaks you've ever had. We always call it the Denver is like our our our Wagyu Gateway drug. And it's like once people have it, they're like, okay, well, what's next? I'm moving on.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

What else you got? What else you got?

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

Uh so I I think that's really fun. And we had actually somebody, a rancher on our podcast, or two brothers, Jim and Giovanni Armandadis, and uh they talk to consumers a lot. And talking about the other cuts, the rest of the animal, they said they had somebody call and say, Well, why don't you why don't you just throw it through the ribeye machine? And uh just that that you know explanation of to people that no, you get a finite number of ribeyes from an animal. And so, like you said, that marbling in a wagyu, you can have some more, you know, stakes, marbling stakes. So that's really interesting and and uh you know an important thing for consumers to learn that there is more to a beef animal, there are more cuts. Our West our re excuse me, our website has um recipes for different cuts, and then you know, you can cut on. We even did a display at the state fair that you can click on a part of the the beef animal and then and then go, oh, what's that? Well, that's the chuck. Here's some chuck recipes, and here's what cuts come out. And then also, you know, what what what can you treat the same? So if you have a recipe for uh, you know, a New York strip, well, you could actually also use that with, you know, these other things. And um, so we're trying to we're always trying to help people understand that just because it's not those I I've never heard them called the Hollywood steaks, but um, just because it's not those ones that you know and are familiar doesn't mean it's not gonna be a great meal.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:17

So yeah, we love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

Yeah, yeah, there's so many things. You talk about the the culat and the bivette and the even the picania, those are things that five years ago I didn't know about. Um and and then even there's even talks too, um the tri-tip is really popular in California.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

I was just gonna say tri-tip.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

Yeah, and it's gaining popularity in New Mexico big time. And and I I talked to somebody who worked at meat processors in Colorado. They used to throw the tri-tip in the grind. Like that was, you know, 10, 20 years ago. It was just going into the grind. Well, that's a delicious cut of meat. I love a tri-tip. Uh I had one at a baseball game the other day. So um a tri-tip sandwich. But yeah, it's it's crazy to think of the the knowledge sharing and the things we're learning more about making those cuts that that are, you know, now value-added products instead of just throwing it in the grind. Let's not do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

Yeah, the the the have uh big pockets to have a tri-tip pocket steak. If you're gonna throw it in the grind, I'm gonna snag that thing and put it in my pocket.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:23

The tri-tip's the new, it's I we call it the West Coast brisket because so many barbecue restaurants are just smoking that up because it's a heck of a lot easier. Um, it's done as much time.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

And people absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

They love it. Yeah.

unknown 1:01:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

We've talked to people on the East Coast and they're like, why can't we get any tri-tips over here in land?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:43

So the West Coast is like eating all of the tri-tips. Northern California takes them all.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

Yeah, yeah. Santa Maria's right where it started, they say, right? The Santa Maria Tri-Tip.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:52

Yeah.

Purpose Motivation And Favorite Ways To Eat Beef

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

Oh, that's perfect. Well, we could talk, we could talk cuts for way too long. Um well, kind of maybe my last two questions, but the last one I always ask is, you know, your favorite way to eat beef. I feel like that could be a long answer. So the the second to last, um, we love to ask, why do you do what you do? When, you know, you might get get uh, you know, usually we're talking ranchers were saying the the days are hard, the the nights are long, all the things. But for you guys, whether it's you know, criticism, you know, challenges, uh the restaurant business is not an easy business, and you guys have, you know, expanded to multiple, right? Um, why do you do what you do? What keeps you going?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:34

Uh for me, it's all I really know. Right. I would love I would love to tell you that I'm gonna shoot for the senior PGA golf tour, but that ain't happening. Um, so for me it's like I've just been I've been bred into this industry and it just it's in my veins. And um, like I said, I love to continue to educate myself. It's kind of the there's no end game really. You just continue to learn all the time about this industry, whether it's the restaurant, the business, the meat, the rancher, the farms, the whatever. And every person that you meet has their own particular story. Um, not just mine, not just Evan's, not just yours, but you know, everybody that you meet that has the same passion for this industry, for this restaurant, for whatever. Everybody's got crazy stories. And that's the best part about it, I think. Getting done with your shift and sitting down and having your having a shift beer afterwards and shooting the shit with somebody you know nothing about and you have so much in common. A bunch of different other stories. So for me, that's kind of it, you know. I like I I just love the community aspect of of this industry period.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

Yeah, no, me too. I mean, I think you know, my family had restaurants growing up, and so I've always just been in the restaurant industry and um always just tried to like take what I know and just keep making building blocks and building blocks and building blocks and taking it to the next level. And that's and when Wagyu came kind of right in front of us, we we we wanted to take that opportunity, uh, especially for me, like I said, I I there was no other information out there to learn. And I was and I'm like big on just diving right in. Like I coach football and I have like 150 football books and football podcasts, and I'm just like constantly listening. I'm like, what's what are they saying? How do I how do I figure this out? And so I didn't have that with with with this industry, and so we wanted to create it so people can learn more about it. And I think and it's really been rewarding for people like like when Tyler said, the that older couple that came up to me at the end of uh at some Mexican restaurant in in Nashville and said, You guys were serving the Wagyu, and I think we're gonna go and we're gonna try to make some Equal and Cross. And I was like, wow, like we could have an influence on this industry and make you know make some amazing beef and uh help help generate more sales in America to help the American rancher because the more I get into this industry, the more I realize that it's so hard for them. And um, and we want to help out as much as possible and create more more revenue streams for them, like like our map. I keep mentioning our map, our map, but I want to take people in and send a bunch of people to this Wild U map and have them go, oh, I found this rancher, I'm gonna go straight to them and buy from their ranch, and buy straight from the rancher and not have to go through a bunch of third-party people just to make it happen, right? Like we want to get people there, go buy from them, go buy from them. You connect with that rancher, you want to try grass-fed in Florida, go buy from them. You want to you are very religious and you like that, go buy from these guys and check out their philosophy. You know, however you want to connect with the rancher and understand what they do, um, you know, is is to me is is is what we're trying to do. We're trying to make that connection so people can have it a little bit easier, hopefully, and we can, you know, make people find the best beef around.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:57

I feel like being a cattle rancher is a lot like being a restaurant owner. Totally is. Oh my god. The work is a lot and the profits are not.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:06

Yeah, thin margins, long days, weekends, holidays.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:11

Yeah. Oh that happy new year. Said what should have ever.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

And everybody thinks you're rich. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Everybody thinks you're just rich. Oh, yeah. All these rich ranchers out there over the people, right? That's not right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

Well, and yeah, and then even I mean I can assume too the the relationship you guys have to have with a banker as well, right? A rancher, you never taught you never knew or I never, you know, realized until you know I started working in the industry how much you have to have a banker, right? And how much debt it takes, or how much, you know, like you said, those thin margins and you've got to have the courage to get a loan or get this or or know or then the knowledge to know look, we're gonna make it profit here and here. That's how we're gonna pay this down or um anything. That's a that's yeah there's a lot of similarities, right? Business owners and then and then I love that you guys both said it was generational too. That's a special thing in the ranching industry is often it's a generational switch um or handover. So uh well perfect we'll oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

Let me just clear this up. I'm gonna keep my children out of the kitchen. I'm just gonna say that right now. Because I want them to enjoy their Christmas dinners than they're thinking ranchers.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

There you go. Well heck yeah let's let's have them be ranchers because the the average the average age of an agriculturalist is is consistently rising. So we do need more young people to be willing to take the chance so yeah if they want to be ranchers we support um I love that yeah sounds good we'll have some ranchers on my on my board and some New Mexico ranchers that that uh that have a lot a lot to teach. I am still very much learning but there's uh plenty of them that have been um like my friend Marky Hagiman join Jones says gategetters for others uh not gatekeepers but gategetters um yeah she's a public speaker that I I uh adore um anyway so my last question um and it's always been really fun what is your favorite way to eat beef and it can be kind of a current favorite or a or a forever favorite either way but what's your favorite way to eat beef?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:22

I'm a braiser I love all things braise all of them it's my favorite there's so much more flavor profile and dynamic in a braise because you are breaking down the protein structures so much more than just searing or grilling a steak which is also delightful don't get me wrong but a braise I am a griller that's where I do most of my damage um and that's kind of why we wanted to teach people how to cook and grill too uh Wagyu at least uh I love I just cooked up I just grilled up uh that full blood wagyu skirt steak Tyler from Prime Valley Farms oh my gosh I ate it up the other day I think it was two nights ago that was the last thing I grilled um in that thing like Tyler said I was moving that thing on the grill nonstop there was no close the grill and let's watch the baseball game no it's move move move otherwise that thing's gonna flare up but um one tip too is uh that Tyler we we came up with or you came up with was really let those coals get super white hot you don't want any flame on that grill you want to just be really patient so that was one thing about grill and wagyoo is I gotta be so patient with those coals get them all the way down and then throw it on there. But yeah grilling uh all day I I love grill and wagyu.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:55

You guys have me excited and I feel like I want to I want to try some and we've got a big green egg that um through our partnership with the outdoor kitchen um distributor and um I'm thinking we need to try something out there. We need to we need to go get some wagyu or find find some wagyu from a local rancher.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:12

Yeah to send us one of those green eggs.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Yeah right right let's let's ask them if we put this on I just got in contact I just got in contact with them yeah we're we're trying to hit up green green egg and uh uh rec tech so we can we can show people how to cook on this because we're we're literally going to be cooking wagyu from 50 to 75 ranches all over the U.S. So like there's not going to be anybody else who's doing that.

Local Directories Final Thoughts And Sign Off

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

So yeah that's super interesting. We have a local beef directory here in New Mexico um and you know it's so special. If you want to hear the story and the way you guys are doing it is going to be really neat. So maybe we can link to uh through Lone Mountain we can link to your Wagyu directory when it's ready so that if if uh other people are from out of state and they want to get to uh someone in their state because absolutely I support no matter where you buy beef you're supporting a rancher and if you want that story you want that connection fully support that absolutely that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

Get to know your ranch get to know your ranchers.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

Yeah yeah absolutely well thank you guys so much for agreeing to be on the podcast I really appreciate it it's been so much fun to get to know you guys and uh talk through so many great things um we are excited to see or I'm excited to see your your map and to follow along and then we'll plan on seeing you at Catalcon in Nashville for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:31

All right awesome thank you channel I appreciate no appreciate you reaching out this has been really fun and yeah hopefully we can just get more people eating beef all over the all over the U.S. supporting the U.S.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

ranchers absolutely absolutely no better no better mission for me so awesome there you go well thank you guys behind the burger is produced by the New Mexico Beef Council to celebrate the people and stories behind New Mexico beef. Thanks for listening follow the show so you never miss an episode and connect with us on social media for more behind the scenes stories and updates. You can find us on Instagram TikTok and YouTube at nm beef and on Facebook at nm beef council we'll see you next time and until then beef it's what's for dinner